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Coma

Botting in high definition OpenGL

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Tyrone   

is this specific to a certain script you made?? or is it actually implemented into the bot finally? I can't tell


It's part of the bot.

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Eldorado RuneScape Gold

*Sigh* I resisted making a pb account for a long time now.. but this just tipped my boat..

 

 

Lol.. You guys are spreading FUD.. This is total crap. The reason you use JDK instead of JRE is because it is a completely different environment. This is why the JDK ships with the JRE libraries as well. JDK is only for development and JRE is only for running an application. I'd expect much more from a Mod and script writer than to say such crap.

 

The Safemode vs. OpenGL detection is complete gimmicks. You guys who are saying that OpenGL is less detectable need to stop that.

 

You're still injecting into the client. The only difference between the OpenGL and Safemode for "RSBot" is that you're simply rendering in OpenGL mode. All the hooks are the same old safe-mode/java hooks. So how exactly do you expect detection to be less? Please explain..

 

Other than that, good work to Timer for keeping pb afloat.. Much respect..

 

Good thing you chose a random name instead of letting your actual online alias be tainted by your apparent lack of intelligence (obviously assuming ggzz are the first characters that came into mind when creating the account).

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Wyn   

Good thing you chose a random name instead of letting your actual online alias be tainted by your apparent lack of intelligence (obviously assuming ggzz are the first characters that came into mind when creating the account).


He didn't choose a random name, you're just making an idiotic post.

733f884805c978ad81a07d3bbf7993d7.png

We are saying these are all possible methods that when put together help Jagex flag accounts that are botting. For example this bit of code below will say whether you are using JDK or JRE. Using JDK + playing in safe mode could flag an account to get some extra attention. We're not saying that they'll be banned for playing in safe mode vs OpenGL.

public class Test {
    public static void main(String[] args) {
        JavaCompiler c = ToolProvider.getSystemJavaCompiler();
        System.out.println(c != null ? "Using JDK" : "Using JRE");
    }
}


/facedesk. Edited by Wyn

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He didn't choose a random name, you're just making an idiotic post.

733f884805c978ad81a07d3bbf7993d7.png


/facedesk.

lolololol

[member=ampersand] owned.

 

Been waiting for HD bot since... wow. December? No DX support? only OpenGL?

Edited by Virgo

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ggzz   

Good thing you chose a random name instead of letting your actual online alias be tainted by your apparent lack of intelligence (obviously assuming ggzz are the first characters that came into mind when creating the account).

 

1. No need to be like that.. The point I was just trying to get across is that the JRE vs. JDK has nothing to do with detection like Coma and the script-writer was making it out to be. Every time I've been pointed to a post over here and asked my opinion on it, it's always misleading or can be easily misinterpreted  in some way. That's not a good sign and it bothered me so I thought I'd point it out.. I'm sure you'd understand if a user panicked after reading "JDK" is detectable and asked your opinion -__-.

 

2. Perhaps I do lack intelligence or creativity.. I don't know. I can't judge myself I guess and I'm not being modest or anything. I honestly never knew a username says that much about a person or broadcasts such a message though.. However, I chose this username because I really hate signing up to sites, it was auto-generated, and sounds close enough to "geez" (when I imagined it) which describes my frustration when signing up for websites, doing the captcha's and the verification.. It's also short and since I use it on other sites, it's easy to remember.. How did you choose yours?

 

3. Thanks Wyn. I smiled reading the three post above. Ahaha.

Edited by ggzz

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1. No need to be like that.. The point I was just trying to get across is that the JRE vs. JDK has nothing to do with detection like Coma and the script-writer was making it out to be. Every time I've been pointed to a post over here and asked my opinion on it, it's always misleading or can be easily misinterpreted  in some way. That's not a good sign and it bothered me so I thought I'd point it out.. I'm sure you'd understand if a user panicked after reading "JDK" is detectable and asked your opinion -__-.

 

2. Perhaps I do lack intelligence or creativity.. I don't know. I can't judge myself I guess and I'm not being modest or anything. I honestly never knew a username says that much about a person or broadcasts such a message though.. However, I chose this username because I really hate signing up to sites, it was auto-generated, and sounds close enough to "geez" (when I imagined it) which describes my frustration when signing up for websites, doing the captcha's and the verification.. It's also short and since I use it on other sites, it's easy to remember.. How did you choose yours?

 

3. Thanks Wyn. I smiled reading the three post above. Ahaha.

 

Could you please crawl in your scar hole again, if u wanna bitch opengl over injection please browse another forum. Nobody asked your opinion

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const_   

1. No need to be like that.. The point I was just trying to get across is that the JRE vs. JDK has nothing to do with detection like Coma and the script-writer was making it out to be. Every time I've been pointed to a post over here and asked my opinion on it, it's always misleading or can be easily misinterpreted  in some way. That's not a good sign and it bothered me so I thought I'd point it out.. I'm sure you'd understand if a user panicked after reading "JDK" is detectable and asked your opinion -__-.

 

2. Perhaps I do lack intelligence or creativity.. I don't know. I can't judge myself I guess and I'm not being modest or anything. I honestly never knew a username says that much about a person or broadcasts such a message though.. However, I chose this username because I really hate signing up to sites, it was auto-generated, and sounds close enough to "geez" (when I imagined it) which describes my frustration when signing up for websites, doing the captcha's and the verification.. It's also short and since I use it on other sites, it's easy to remember.. How did you choose yours?

 

3. Thanks Wyn. I smiled reading the three post above. Ahaha.

 

You seem idiotic and fail to think about different aspects which users may be talking about. You should probably get up to date on how JaGeX is profiling botters these days before you make such claims, all you seem to consider is client side detection...

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ggzz   

Could you please crawl in your scar hole again, if u wanna bitch opengl over injection please browse another forum. Nobody asked your opinion

 

Ahh. I'll take that advice and go back my "scar" hole. I don't see exactly where I was bitching. Apparently "JDK is no less detectable than JRE" for you means Simba vs. powerbot and OpenGL vs. Injection war.. Where do people like you even come from. Honestly.

 

With an attitude like yours, ampersand's, and daycrawler's, I'll prefer to stay away and I will go back to the comfort of simba and scar. Actually didn't expect this sorta resentment for saying "JRE is just as detectable as JDK".

 

 

You seem idiotic and fail to think about different aspects which users may be talking about. You should probably get up to date on how JaGeX is profiling botters these days before you make such claims, all you seem to consider is client side detection...

 

Mhmm because you guys know all about it.. It is ok because I won't be staying to read it anyway. It must be so nice to have know-it-all's like you guys around. I feel much safer botting knowing that using JRE is "less detectable than JDK" and that Jagex will flag me for using JDK.

Must also be nice to know exactly what they do on the server side right?

 

May I ask where you got that shiny black name from? As well as the "scholars" tag below it? Wait.. I'll take a guess before I leave. You got it because you are 1337 in Jagex client hacking, hacked their servers, and probably took a class or two in comp-sci.

Edited by ggzz

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Ahh. I'll take that advice and go back my "scar" hole. I don't see exactly where I was bitching. Apparently "JDK is no less detectable than JRE" for you means Simba vs. powerbot and OpenGL vs. Injection war.. Where do people like you even come from. Honestly.

 

With an attitude like yours, ampersand's, and daycrawler's, I'll prefer to stay away and I will go back to the comfort of simba and scar. Actually didn't expect this sorta resentment for saying "JRE is just as detectable as JDK".

 

 

 

Mhmm because you guys know all about it.. It is ok because I won't be staying to read it anyway. It must be so nice to have know-it-all's like you guys around. I feel much safer botting knowing that using JRE is "less detectable than JDK" and that Jagex will flag me for using JDK.

Must also be nice to know exactly what they do on the server side right?

 

May I ask where you got that shiny black name from? As well as the "scholars" tag below it? Wait.. I'll take a guess before I leave. You got it because you are 1337 in Jagex client hacking, hacked their servers, and probably took a class or two in comp-sci.

OH dude you are killing me, stahp you :p. You cannot compare the communities at simba and at PB. I have never seen anybody bitching and calling people idiotic at simba. You go to simba when you want to talk to mature people who don't bitch @ people and call em idiotic and crap, you come to PB to watch 12 year olds fight to the death to show who is more 1337. You should see the SW application sections, they downgrade new SW so badly and shit its ridic.

Edited by Spartan 117

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Coder91   

So since I'm new I don't really know...but why is botting in HD such a big thing? I mean I read the comments and saw that Jagex may be profiling based on certain settings a user has, but is that the only reason? Like to help stop the flagging by having varied settings? Or are there other reasons? Such as just so we can (which is perfectly fine, by the way). Just kinda curious.

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Hat   

So since I'm new I don't really know...but why is botting in HD such a big thing? I mean I read the comments and saw that Jagex may be profiling based on certain settings a user has, but is that the only reason? Like to help stop the flagging by having varied settings? Or are there other reasons? Such as just so we can (which is perfectly fine, by the way). Just kinda curious.

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Hat   

Oh right, forgot about that too. Thanks.

No problem. And another thing, which is arguably less noteworthy, is that people who babysit their bots don't have to look at the ugly, low detail, aliased textures. ;)

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Coder91   

No problem. And another thing, which is arguably less noteworthy, is that people who babysit their bots don't have to look at the ugly, low detail, aliased textures. wink.png

Oh yes...the agony of seeing low resolution bot actions! Nooooooooooooooo! Edited by Coder91

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Paris   

Actually didn't expect this sorta resentment for saying "JRE is just as detectable as JDK".

We have advised our developers to run against the default JRE as the JDK appends additional libraries to the classpath which is exposed at runtime. This vector may have been used in the recent past to identify script writers who we understand were actively targeted at one point. I will not go into further details but my official advice remains the same.

 

I cannot comment on other bots like Simba because I have not looked at it. However with RSBot neither injection nor OpenGL serve the purpose of affecting detectability. Both of those features are purely for performance and memory efficiency. We use Antipatterns to keep the bot stealthed and a combination of other undisclosed techniques to keep our players safe.

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const_   

Ahh. I'll take that advice and go back my "scar" hole. I don't see exactly where I was bitching. Apparently "JDK is no less detectable than JRE" for you means Simba vs. powerbot and OpenGL vs. Injection war.. Where do people like you even come from. Honestly.

 

With an attitude like yours, ampersand's, and daycrawler's, I'll prefer to stay away and I will go back to the comfort of simba and scar. Actually didn't expect this sorta resentment for saying "JRE is just as detectable as JDK".

 

 

 

Mhmm because you guys know all about it.. It is ok because I won't be staying to read it anyway. It must be so nice to have know-it-all's like you guys around. I feel much safer botting knowing that using JRE is "less detectable than JDK" and that Jagex will flag me for using JDK.

Must also be nice to know exactly what they do on the server side right?

 

May I ask where you got that shiny black name from? As well as the "scholars" tag below it? Wait.. I'll take a guess before I leave. You got it because you are 1337 in Jagex client hacking, hacked their servers, and probably took a class or two in comp-sci.

 

Good thing you're not sticking around because your arrogance was getting on my nerves. Did I ever state I knew everything? All I kow from this thread is that I have more of an open mind than you.

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He didn't choose a random name, you're just making an idiotic post.

733f884805c978ad81a07d3bbf7993d7.png


/facedesk.

 

>(obviously assuming ggzz are the first characters that came into mind when creating the account)

 

I'm sure you can work out that that statement means I've never heard of him before thus the prior assumption.

 

1. No need to be like that.. The point I was just trying to get across is that the JRE vs. JDK has nothing to do with detection like Coma and the script-writer was making it out to be. Every time I've been pointed to a post over here and asked my opinion on it, it's always misleading or can be easily misinterpreted  in some way. That's not a good sign and it bothered me so I thought I'd point it out.. I'm sure you'd understand if a user panicked after reading "JDK" is detectable and asked your opinion -__-.

 

2. Perhaps I do lack intelligence or creativity.. I don't know. I can't judge myself I guess and I'm not being modest or anything. I honestly never knew a username says that much about a person or broadcasts such a message though.. However, I chose this username because I really hate signing up to sites, it was auto-generated, and sounds close enough to "geez" (when I imagined it) which describes my frustration when signing up for websites, doing the captcha's and the verification.. It's also short and since I use it on other sites, it's easy to remember.. How did you choose yours?

 

3. Thanks Wyn. I smiled reading the three post above. Ahaha.

 

You wrote your initial post as if you had decent knowledge in the subject hence my response.

 

We're not talking about client detection but instead profiling of botters. If someone is running in safemode and using JDK over JRE then it's clearly something that could contribute to a profile. Making the environment that people bot in more like what actual players use makes it harder to distinguish between types (assuming this is all used in botwatch).

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Timer   

*Sigh* I resisted making a pb account for a long time now.. but this just tipped my boat..
 
 
Lol.. You guys are spreading FUD.. This is total crap. The reason you use JDK instead of JRE is because it is a completely different environment. This is why the JDK ships with the JRE libraries as well. JDK is only for development and JRE is only for running an application. I'd expect much more from a Mod and script writer than to say such crap.
 
The Safemode vs. OpenGL detection is complete gimmicks. You guys who are saying that OpenGL is less detectable need to stop that.
 
You're still injecting into the client. The only difference between the OpenGL and Safemode for "RSBot" is that you're simply rendering in OpenGL mode. All the hooks are the same old safe-mode/java hooks. So how exactly do you expect detection to be less? Please explain..
 
Other than that, good work to Timer for keeping pb afloat.. Much respect..

The reason it is believed that JDK can cause suspicion or detection is because certain code which is executed through JDK (throws an exception) or JRE (executes fine) [might be] used to detect running in JDK environments to "flag" the account, however it isn't a very reliable method to use in "profiling."
Also, "OpenGL" isn't less detectable in itself, however due to Jagex collecting statistics about graphics modes from players, it is believed safe-mode usage causes a flag on the account if played with an alternate graphics mode prior.

These are last-considered precautions to address after ensuring the bot itself (and it's injection) can't be detected by method of instantaneous analysis. Moreover, they're being done for performance and not necessarily "reducing detection rates."

----
Nice to see you around, ggzz.
----

You go to simba when you want to talk to mature people who don't bitch @ people and call em idiotic and crap

Oh don't even start, people there are even more self-absorbed, however they all get along because otherwise you get banned. There is a higher level of respect, but underlying there are the same tensions present here -- smaller, more collaborative communities are just easier to maintain.

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The reason it is believed that JDK can cause suspicion or detection is because certain code which is executed through JDK (throws an exception) or JRE (executes fine) [might be] used to detect running in JDK environments to "flag" the account, however it isn't a very reliable method to use in "profiling."
Also, "OpenGL" isn't less detectable in itself, however due to Jagex collecting statistics about graphics modes from players, it is believed safe-mode usage causes a flag on the account if played with an alternate graphics mode prior.

These are last-considered precautions to address after ensuring the bot itself (and it's injection) can't be detected by method of instantaneous analysis. Moreover, they're being done for performance and not necessarily "reducing detection rates."

----
Nice to see you around, ggzz.
----

Oh don't even start, people there are even more self-absorbed, however they all get along because otherwise you get banned. There is a higher level of respect, but underlying there are the same tensions present here -- smaller, more collaborative communities are just easier to maintain.

I understand what u mean, but as a new guy, no matter what the internal tensions, they dont show it outside. I have seen new people apply for scripter at simba and here. There people give constructive criticism, while I have seen people here, not gunna name em, go ape shit on new scripters here and rather than give constructive criticism, bash the crap out of em and destroy their confidence. Admins here have demoted people on a whim because someone challenged their work or their theory.

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